02R and HUI "Touch Fader" mode

So i've managed to successfully get an 02R to emulate a HUI unit (faders only at the moment), along with a Novation Launch Control (with LED feedback) providing the transport controls and fader bank buttons. All with help from the wonderful members of the Bome Forum.

Yay! All good! Except...

When in any DAW I have written some automation, and go back to adjust, using 'Touch' mode, that's when the issue starts. The DAW feeds back info to the motorised fader, which can't be grabbed to overdub automation...

In a proper HUI unit, I have assumed that there must be a small pressure activated microswitch, which enables 'Touch Fader On' when the fader is grabbed, and disables 'Touch Fader Off' when you let go. As the 02R does not have this type of fader, even if you transmit 'Touch Fader' messages as part of the fader movement, the faders still fight back, as they are being constantly updated by the DAW, and seem to ignore the 'Touch Fader' HUI messages...

I thought about this, and have implemented a momentary button on my Launch Control, which temporarily disables the feedback to the faders (whilst held down) enabling you to 'touch write' automation. It's a crude but effective solution to the issue.

Has anyone else got a more elegant, or automatic solution to this issue, or am I missing something in my MTP project?

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Andy.

Maybe place a timer on the fader value change. Have a translator that disables input back from the DAW (or perhaps not send any message to the DAW) while being moved.

When you stop moving the fader (after some preset amount as set by the timer). Have the timer fire of another action to re-enable feedback.

Edit: Not a tested solution, just a possible idea.

...

Hi Steve!

Thanks for the reply. I’ll test that suggestion, as my timer is working slightly different from what you suggest…

hey if youre still having trouble with this are you positive that bomes is sending the proper ping to and from pro tools?

Translator 40: Protools Tick
Options: stop=false
Incoming: On timer “Tick”
Rules:
gv=0
Outgoing: MIDI 90 00 00

Translator 41: Ping
Options: stop=false
Incoming: MIDI 90 00 7F
Outgoing: MIDI B0 00 7F

Translator 42: Ping
Options: stop=false
Incoming: MIDI 90 00 00
Outgoing: MIDI 90 00 7F

im sure one of these is useless lol maybe 2 but ive had zero issues mapping my zed r16 like this

Hi, the Ping should come from Pro-tools only and the ping response should come from the HUI device back to Pro-Tools only. If you are getting fader movement from your 02R then it is likely working. This handshake usually happens at about 1 second intervals. Only when I’m testing my virtual HUI device (using MT Pro as an emulator) without Pro-Tools open, do I use a timer to generate a ping to test if my emulation is working.

Some controllers are non-responsive in HUI mode if they don’t see this ping regularly.

In summary, Pro-tools should send the ping, and MT Pro (pretending it is a HUI device) should respond with a ping response. No timer needed in this mode.

Some applications also do a device inquiry ( which is a SysEX message) and a response is needed for he application to accept that it is a true HUE device. I don’t think this is the case with Pro-tools though.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
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Hey there! Sorry but the o2r isn’t a native hui interface is it? Unless I’m wrong which I may be and that’s fine. But if it doesn’t work under hui protocol on its own then bomes has to send the ping back into pro tools. Now you can definitely get a majority of the controls working within pro tools without the ping, however the faders won’t have full functionality nor will the pan pots.

Sorry if I’m sounding like a jerk. But I had huge issues trying to figure out why my board wouldn’t work for a long time, it was because bomes wasn’t sending the proper ping to pro tools.

Once again I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure the o2r doesn’t natively use HUI in which case it wouldn’t send a ping on its own.

Also I managed to get my faders working generally but never the rest of my controls in pro tools until I figured out the proper ping. Also when I realized that all HUI is sent on channel 1 only. If there’s only half functionality within pro tools of your control surface then the ping “handshake” isn’t working as it should and something is most likely wrong with how the ping is interacting either timing or code

Indeed the O2R is not a HUI device, however you might be able to emulate one using MT Pro. Beyond the ping, I’m not sure what Pro-Tools would recognize from an 02R for any other MIDI messages.

If you can open a new thread with an example of what The O2R first fader sends, I could show you how you could map it so that Pro-Tools would recognize it a HUI first fader.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Just want to throw it out there I know I’m being argumentative right now but I do respect you Steve haha I’ve read a lot of your stuff on here to help me when I was learning Mido and your videos were very insightful as well. Figured 8 should say that I’m only debating here haha

Hi,

No issue at all. I’m here to help and I did not take anything as argumentative. Just constructive feedback.

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I don’t specifically have an o2r. But I fought for 3 months trying to gain full functionality of my zed r16. After all that time almost 8 hours a day some days I finally figured out hui.

So basically what happens is if the ping isn’t sending properly at the proper intervals you lose functionality of the midi completely until the program restarts.

Adversely if pro tools never gets a ping at all then half of the midi will function as it should. The documentation says everything but the faders and pots but personally I found that I could get the faders working but that was about it.

100% you are right that MT pro can emulate the ping. But it has to be implemented right.

The documentation from Allen & heath I originally got with the bomes file had the ping written as “B0 00 7F” when it should have been “90 00 00” on the output. I still lose midi functionality here and there for some stuff I think is more related to my computer, but 90% of the time the midi on my board which doesn’t natively use hui protocol works flawlessly now.

On top of it all I can now play with the functionality as far as making various faders do things like cut paste and move files if I have enough patience. Also set it up so I could cycle through button functions.

I’m a little sensitive on this subject lmao probably because I went through 3 months of obsessive midi hell to figure it out lmao. But I don’t even know if I’m 100% right but I do know this much, that without a proper ping at the proper intervals you will never get 100% functionality.

Awesome cause I get into some heated debates sometimes haha I’ll always admit when I’m wrong though

Try this for first 2 faders of O2R along with the proper ping response

Here is my Alias Setup - I’m not using a real O2R but found some info on what the faders send. I tested with Cubase 10 in HUI mode because I currently do not have a Pro-Tools license

image

O2R-HUI-Fader1.bmtp (1.7 KB)

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
1 Like

Hey guys!

I’ve had it all working perfectly for a few years now. My 02R is now working in Logic and PT. I’ve not bothered with Ableton yet.

I also have a Novation Launchpad to act as a transport and to host a ‘motor disable’ button so I can write touch automation.

Cheers!

Andy.

You need a midi sniffer to check what the 02R is spitting out. Each fader, Tape Return knob, on/off, and solo all output a Yamaha specific, individual sysex string pertaining to that physical control, that can be translated to HUI, no bother.

A midi sniffer??? Please link me lol if that’s all I need I will love you forever I’m tired of fighting with this board lmao

Yea cubase and pro tools are similar but pro tools seems to be touchy. I actually think my main problem was that I had to take over control of the main windows system folder really. For some reason midi and audio freak out with my board unless I do

Just reporting back that yes it was the windows folder…I found something online about taking over the system folder and worked like a charm

Also, give me a shout if you need any other help in getting up and running.