A MIDI Learn/MIDI CC7 insert effect VST2 wanted - it's Chris, for Steven!

Dear Steven.

You told me to continue the discussion here so others could learn!

My DAW is Quick Score Elite Level 2 - think of it as Fred Flintstone’s answer to Dorico! It does EVERYTHING with CC commands - there’s a whole long list of them it’s got. And that includes volume control. I’ve amassed a lovely collection of VSTs that work perfectly fine with having CC7 commands sent out to them - and a batch that don’t. And the Most Annoying one that doesn’t work PROPERLY with CC7 is Kontakt.

Kontakt lets you create multis. So you get your bunch of instruments, mix their outputs together into a Perfect Unified Sound - exactly like mixing yellow and blue to make green and then painting with the green - and of course then you want to make the Unified Sound louder and softer. Except Kontakt won’t let you DO that. If you send a CC7 Command to a Kontakt Multi, it won’t turn up the Multi-as-a-whole, it’ll change the sound levels to EACH OF THE COMPONENT INSTRUMENTS to the CC7 level. Thus destroying your carefully combined sound. Kontakt’s GOT sound sliders but won’t let you USE them via CC commands. So the only way to control a Kontakt multi is with a CC7 controller as an insert effect in the appropriate MIDI channel in your DAW. Remembering that AS it’s a unified sound, you’ve routed ALL the instruments in the multi to ONE MIDI CHANNEL. You want one note on that channel to play your mixed, unified sound as though it’s a single instrument.

I’d never used Kontakt before 3 weeks ago. Discovered this problem straight off. I’ve got another VST, the Korg M1 Emulator, that creates combis EXACTLY the same way as Kontakt but works PERFECTLY with Midi CC7, which turns up the Korg Multi AS A WHOLE, the way it should do in Kontakt. So I know it’s possible. Native Instruments have messed up Kontakt’s programming badly on this one and I’ve told them this (it would be SO easy just to put MIDI learn on the Kontakt volume sliders but they’ve not done it!)

Which is why I’m after a controller with either MIDI Learn or CC7 control built-in. It’s the only way I’ll be able to control Kontakt Multis. And there’s a little bunch of other VSTs which don’t take CC7s either, I’ll be able to use it with those.

Remember, this thing’s not DAW dependent. As it’s a VST, it would work in ANY Daw that accepts VSTs. So I bet there’s a BUNCH of other people out there with VST noisemakers they can’t volume control who’d LOVE to know about a CC7 volume controller! Just ONE KNOB with CC7/MIDI-Learn on it (MIDI-Learn would make it useful for other functions, too.) I know other Kontakt users would LOVE it. They all create multis in their DAWS with Kontakt sounds because they know if they create a multi in Kontakt, they kouldn’t kontrol it!

What you got we could do the above with?

Yours hopefully


Oh, Kontakt. I see. I’ve heard of other users with this problem. The problem is you want to make the overall mix relative to the input CC instead of duplicating the CC with the same value across all instruments. I think I read somewhere to disable CC7 (volume) on the instruments and uses CC11 (expression) instead. I think expression is more of a relative change than volume which is an absolute change. This would require more research, however there is nothing in Bome’s bag of tricks that I could think of. Bome works pretty much outside of the other applications (DAW) and it is within each application to decide how to control their instruments.

As far as the other plugins. My understanding is that VST3’s are moving away from using MIDI at all so you would be stuck with sending MIDI to the DAW and then setting the DAW to control a software ‘parameter’. Maybe the incoming to the DAW would be a MIDI CC, however within the DAW, it doesn’t use MIDI at all to control the parameter.

Sorry, I don’t think I will be much help on this one. NI, probably needs to address it.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

i deal with mapping VST’s within the Reaper-DAW’s enviroment… using a Reaper only based VST called Realearn by Helgoboss, which is both intuitive/powerful & free…
it has alot of essentials that Bomes Midi Translator pro offers… but is geared around the operations within Reaper tracks/sends/volumes/mutes etc etc etc but more impotantly VST parameter adjustments…
i have Kontakt, and realearn can essentially grab all the recogniseable VST parameters to be assigned to whatever midi assigned button/fader you wish… the only real limitation is the hardware control types which are fixed of course.
with all that said… the DAW you use and the midi integration of vst’s is a big part of the equation of making a VST do what you desire

heres a couple of examples: of VST integration made by the Reaper community…

Lbx smartknobs quick midi assignments

Realearn controlling custom shapers in shaperbox2

As a additional thought…
if the instances of Kontakt were separated,but grouped and used in a multitrack scenario … you could essentially control the instances on a per track volume basis giving you the same desired effect without the need for VST control?? *shrugs