Ableton // multiple devices // Bome Network

Bome Products
1

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the whole BomeBox universe so far but - even though I'm struggling a bit right now - let me say that I already love the almost endless capabilities! We're a Female Fronted Metal Duo from Berlin, Germany, playing every instrument on our own on stage, using Ableton Live for that and the BomeBox has been the solution I was looking for regarding all the functions, etc.

I would say I'm pretty firm with technical stuff, including network protocols, standard MIDI functionality, etc. and I've gone through the manual AND the YouTube tutorials but I'm still feeling like I'm missing information and I just can't get it figured out on my own, so really hope you're able to help me, feeling a bit dumb here :-/

So, regarding the problem:

We currrently have two BomeBoxes running, named BomeBox SLY and BomeBox VALY, a third one will be added in future. BBSLY is directly connected to an unmanaged 16 Port PoE Switch, via Cat 7. BBVALY gets its power from the PoE Out of BBSLY. I already properly installed them and did the basic configurations done, like password, firmware update, pairing etc. BBVALY works as Ethernet Master; BBSLY, Mac Pro and all other devices in our network are slaves. BBVALY, BBSLY and Mac Pro are paired.

When accessing each boxes Web Config, all devices pop up in MIDI Port section, so they're plugged in correctly, I assume. I've already bought & installed unlimited MIDI Ports Add-On, as well as MIDI Translator Pro (for future stuff). But well, that's where the problems begin: I don't know where and how to properly configure the MIDI Routing, so that:

  • all devices plugged in @BBSLY communicate with Ableton (so that I can see them in Abletons MIDI config page, each device on its own)
  • all devices plugged in @BBVALY communicate with Ableton (need to see each separate device in MIDI config of Ableton as well)
    • (I've attached a picture of how it should look like from some days ago where I've only used a huge USB Hub for all of our MIDI devices and the overall MIDI plan, hope that helps)
  • no communication between BBSLY and BBVALY necessary yet

I'm aware of the MIDI Routing function in web config and already tried:

  • Routing Launchkey 1 (for example) to Mac Pro and Mac Pro to Launchkey 1

But when switching to Ableton, only both of the network streams (SLYBome Net and ValyBome Net) are chooseable as MIDI Ports. Already learned that this is because current firmware only supports one Ethernet stream, correct? So I thought, okay, let's switch to Bome Network Tool and just make a new virtual midi port, named Launchkey for example. And indeed, this one pops up in Ableton then...but still can't get a MIDI signal from the Launchkey in. Besides, do I need to choose the Launchkey in MIDI routing or the USB Launchkey (Alias)? Also noticed that you have MIDI routing options in the Network Tool as well...and that confused me..I just don't know where to make the correct settings for that since there are multiple options (web config, network tool or should I use Translator Pro?)

I know that this is a beginner question, really feeling stupid here but yeah.. Help please :-(


Attachments:
1596988931475_Signalchain_MIDI_BomeBox.pdf
1596990541430_IMG_6682.pdf
2

Hi,

Thanks for the detailed description on what you have and what you want to do!  In a nutshell as I understand it, you want to be able to see all 11 attached devices from Both Bomeboxes from Ableton Live on your Mac as separate ports instead of 1 or two MIDI streams (BBSLY and BBVALY). 

Unfortunately, creating multiple virtual ports on your Mac, will not completely solve this since the network connection still only supports only 1 stream between any 2 devices. Although you can add additional virtual ports with unlimited virtual ports, you will need to route them to/from an existing real port so what you will end up getting is a copy of one of the existing stream.  The feature that is being developed right now, however should solve this on a later version of Bome Network Pro and BomeBox firmware.

 

In the meantime, you have 2 choices.

1) Put MT Pro projects on your BomeBoxes that translate from each device yet on a different MIDI channel and then use the MIDI channel number in Ableton Live to differenate them in the existing stream.  This solution, however will not help if you are using MIDI Remote Scripts in Ableton Live (that expects, for instance MIDI CH 1 on a different port for each attache Launchpad).

2) I have developed a workaround as shown in the attached picture.  What I do is from the sending device, I encode the existing MIDI Stream into a SysEX message and add routing information within that message. Then I decode that information and using different preset configurations, decode and  route to a different port on the receiving end.  I can create new virtual MIDI ports for that so that ultimately Ableton Live can see them independently and use the native MIDI channel of each device.  Basically it is a stream multiplexer using MT Pro.

What I haven't tested, is how Ableton Live handles SysEx messages that are bound for only a specific device as I do not encode/decode existing SysEx Messages. So I'm not 100% sure how Ableton Live will handle the initial device handshake if using Sytem Exclusive mesages.

 

I'm hoping that I don't need to implement my solution on a wide scale as I believe native multi-port stream support should be coming soon. I'm happy to share my rudimentry "netsend.bmtp" and "netrcv.bmtp" project files if you want to give it a go. In fact I think I recently posted them for another user.

 

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

 

 


Attachments:
![](upload://fwRv04UBZoMEPbvGkFoWNYaddYT.png)
3

Hi Steve,

thank you so much for your quick answer! I don't want it but I think solution two is the way to go. Is there any manual or tutorial for the whole SysEx topic? That's completely new to me, never used that before. 

Would also be very happy about your rudimentary project files!

Thanks in advance

Valy

4

Hi,

The post with the links to the MT Pro files is here.

The actual file links are below:

Net-Sysex-Rcv-2018-10-03a.bmtp

Net-Sysex-Send-2018-10-03a.bmtp

As mentioned, they are far from a complete solution for your situation. They are simply samples on how it can be done but there would be quite a bit of work and testing for your specific solution.

  1. Example for one way communication only.
  2. Example for 2 MIDI ports only
  3. Example does not encode-decode SysEx to different ports

Again, hoping the Bome releases the new multi-port solution soon.

System Exclusive is part of the MIDI specification, however for the most part it is up to the manufacture (in this case the user) to define the exact format needed for a specific situation. The Key is, it always starts with 0xF0 and ends with 0xF7.

 

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

5

Hi,
it’s me again :smiley:
Unfortunately, I need some more help on this topic here, if possible. I’m kinda stuck. I’ve waited for the firmware update which allows multiple streams instead of going the SysEx way.
However, I still can’t get it to work. The signalchain is still the same as mentioned above and I see every device in Ableton as it should be. I can’t get the Push 2 to work though, neither an Akai MPK and multiple Launchpads for DAW Control. Could you please assist me here and tell me exactly how to route and configure this, please? Or is there a new tutorial for this?
Besides, how do I configure the BomeBoxes for a backup Mac running Ableton also? So that both Mac’s get the exact same MIDI data from all midi devices in the network?
Any help is highly appreciated!! Thanks in advance :face_with_head_bandage:
Greetz
Valy

6

Hi, I think I would need to see your Ableton Live MIDI configuration for this.
The devices on SLY will need to all be configured in Ableton As Remotes for MIDI control or track for performance in some case both.

For Ableton to differentiate between the Launchpads, you will need a project running to convert MIDI channels since Ableton Live does not differentiate MIDI learn from attached remotes (but it does for MIDI Remote Scripts I believe).
Do not attach the Generic Network Port to Ableton Live

The ports you want to use would look something like

BomeBox SLY: LaunchPad
BomeBox SLY: LaunchPad 1
BomeBox SLY: MIDI DIN
BomeBox SLY: Launchkey MINI
BomeBox SLY: Push 2

Again do not use Network Port BomeBox SLY. Connect directly to the Remote MIDI ports.

We are working on a Tutorial For Failover Switching with Ableton Live for Allen and Heath Mixers which should give you want you want for your setup.

I hope this gets you moving in the right direction.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
1 Like
10

Hi Steve,
thanks for your reply! I’m aware of how to use the ports now, they’re shown in Ableton also. My ableton midi setup is correct, I’ve used 2x USB Hubs with an active 15m USB cable before and it worked fine. However, I really wanna get rid of USB and switch to CAT cables all the way.

I’ve also managed to get midi notes through the 61SL Keyboard, however, and that’s my biggest problem - I just can’t get the Push 2 or Akai or Launchpad Pro to work for DAW Control. Remote is enabled in Ableton. What am I missing for this? :confused:

Thanks for your help!

11

Hi could you give me a screen shot of how you have MIDI set up in Ableton Live?

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
12

Hi,

thanks so much for your patience. Attached you’ll find all configs I did.
Some additional info / questions:

  1. Both Launchpads from SLY Bome (Launchpad Pro MK3 and Launchpad X) work now - Ableton DAW Control as well as playing in Note Mode, simultaneously, everything as it should be

  2. Same goes for the Akai MPC from VALY Bome, works perfectly fine, without me doing any MIDI Routes in webconfig beforehand though?!

  3. Can’t bring Push 2 sitting on SLY Bome to work. Shows in Ableton, Ports open but Push Screen doesn’t change to DAW Control, only Standby. Same goes for the Komplete Kontrol S88 Keyboard sitting on VALY Bome. Ableton recognizes Midi coming through it but when I load Komplete Kontrol plugin, screen from S88 also stays in Standby, so it’s effectively not useable.

  4. I can’t open both Maschine Plus Ports. Clicking on both Buttons in Remote Direct MIDI section from Bome Network Tool doesn’t make them active / green, it stays closed.

  5. Could you please explain what the difference between MIDI Router in Bome Network Tool and MIDI Routes in webconfig is?

  6. Also, please can you tell me why there are Aliases created automatically? E.g. (USB 1 APC40 mkII, etc.) and how/if I need to use them? I thought that I only need to use the “real” ports?

I’m almost sure I will have more questions :confused: if it’s possible I would gladly pay for a Team Viewer Consulting session or similar, just let me know.
Massive thanks in advance and greetings from Berlin,
Valy

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13

Well I have a few ideas.

  1. Since you are using MIDI Remote Ports to access all of the ports on your PC, you should turn off all MIDI routes within the BomeBoxes unless you also want to route MIDI to somewhere else. This might be why you cannot open the MIDI remote ports.

  2. Some of your devices have multiple MIDI ports (interfaces) so ensure you follow the instructions in Ableton Live on how to connect them locally and make sure you are picking the correct port for the scripts. I think this might be your issue with Push and Komplete Kontrol. For instance, there might be a port as a DAW port and another port as a performance port. In general the DAW port is the one you want to use with MIDI remote scripts and the performance port you use for sending track notes (in the below section)

In general, you should first connect them directly to the computer and get them to work with Ableton Live there. Then take note of the ports that you need to use. Then connect remotely and use the correct MIDI Remote Port instead. Again, whine using MIDI remote ports you should not need to do any MIDI routing within the BomeBoxes.

Test One at a time, then move it to the BomeBox and test it again as a troublshooting tool.

I don’t think Ableton Live supports more than 6 Scripts running simultaneously so you will be limited to 6 devices controlled by Ableton Remote Script. You should still be able to use the devices, however for track performance and if you use MIDI learn, use them for control (as long as the MIDI messages do not overlap each other across controllers.

The MIDI Router on the BomeBox (via web interface) routes between ports on the BomeBox.
In the Bome Network tool, you should only have a MIDI router section if you are using unlimited Virtual Ports. I don’t think you are using this so should leave this alone for now. Also in the Bome Network tool you have the ability to access remote network ports directly (not requiring the BomeBox MIDI router).

The auto Aliases are actually the names reported by the USB devices. The USB names are their physical port names. I would recommend you access them by the actual names reported by the device unless you have a project file loaded that uses other names. Then you can assign the other names in your project file to the reported names, but you are not running an project files on your BomeBoxes as far as I can tell so I would not worry about that.

3 Ports for Ableton Live Scripting So Far

2 More Ports for Ableton Live Scripting

You also have a local port which makes 6. So no more scripting ports available.

The remaining devices will need to use MIDI learn if you want to use them with Ableton Live as a control surface. However you can use them for track (performance).

To fix this, you might need to talk to Ableton.

From your original picture you showed 5 devices on BomeBox SLY and 5 devices on BomeBOX VALY for a total of 12 devices. Some of the devices have multiple ports. One BomeBox reported 10 and the other 17 for a total of 27 ports. Again you can use MIDI remote scripting with Ableton Live with up to 6 ports unless they have a different solution for you. Everything else needs to use MIDI learn (for control), sync (for timing only) or track (for performance data)

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
14

From this web page.

27.1.1 Natively Supported Control Surfaces

Control Surfaces are defined via the menus in the Link/MIDI tab. Up to six supported control surfaces can be used simultaneously in Live.

15

Thanks for your quick reply Steve!
I’m aware of the 6 DAW controller limit. The setup worked perfectly fine with only using USB Hubs to connect the Launchpads, Push, 4 Keyboards in total, some foot pedals and a MIDI drumset.
However, since we need to use that for live performances, I can’t use USB Hubs all the time because of it’s cable / signal lenghts restrictions hence why I wanted to transform the whole setup to a BomeBox setup.

I’ll deactivate all MIDI Routes I did later this day and check if this might be the cause for not being able to open up the ports and get back to you.

Just to clarify…Bomebox fully supports the Push correct? So just connecting it to the Box, open up the Port and do correct setting in Ableton should make it work then?

16

BomeBox supports MIDI only so if the Push also uses HID (like keyboard, joystick, mouse) for communication , then any HID functionality will not pass through BomeBox back to the host computer.

This is also true for any USB audio connections. Audio will not pass through from an attached USB device over the network to any other hosts.

There is some limited support for keyboard input but only to covert to MIDI before sending it out to the network. The network from BomeBox is MIDI only.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
17

Ahhhh, noooo :sob::pensive::pensive:
Well, that’s explaining it then. Is there any chance of a future update implementing this or a workaround or is it impossible?

18

Well I don’t think of any of these have USB audio or HID but not sure.

There might be a chance for HID to convert outgoing keystrokes from a HID based controller to MIDI using a Bome MIDI Translator project file and then on the remote host use another Bome MIDI Translator project to convert back to keystrokes. This would be a long shot.

I would first talk to the vendors to see if their USB includes any HID or audio support. At first glance I didn’t see that either Maschine, S88, or Push2 had HID or audio USB interface.

I know of no development outside of MIDI actively in progress on BomeBox.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
20

We don’t have a Push here for testing. If it’s not appearing on the MIDI Port page of the BomeBox web config, it’s likely that it uses (some) proprietary standard instead of good old MIDI.

We would love to support proprietary devices, for example the nice NI controllers, in the BomeBox, but they use proprietary HID. So we would need to find out or reverse-engineer their use of HID, then go device by device and add support for it manually. At least some NI controllers can be put into a MIDI mode. Maybe that exists for the Push, too?

The manufacturers would make their controllers much more useful if they just used MIDI.

21

Reading the Push 2 documentation it appears that it is MIDI only so if that is what you have, it should work for you.

Again, turn all MIDI routes on both BomeBoxes and access the USB ports with Remote Direct MIDI ports on your computer and it should work.

Steve

22

It’s a good idea to configure MIDI Routes in a sensible way, but note that they entirely independent of Remote Direct MIDI Ports. They work no matter how the routes are configured.

23

@FlorianBome

So there couldn’t be MIDI data coming from elsewhere that is interfering with the Remote Direct MIDI stream?

24

No, the Remote Direct MIDI Ports are always directly connected to the actual device connected to the BomeBox, bypassing any MIDI Routes and any MT Project translations.