Difficulties to connect network midi with computer

Bome Products
1

Hi !

I have some troubles to connect my computer and my bomebox (firmware 1.4.1).

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, so I tried to see different configurations :

  1. It always works if I start the bomebox with « No project » and I connect the bomebox & the computer with wifi
  2. It always works if I start the bomebox with « No project » and I connect the bomebox & the computer with ethernet
  3. It sometimes works, sometimes not, if I start the bomebox with my current project and I try to connect with wifi
  4. It never works if I start the bomebox with my current project and I try to connect with ethernet
  5. It works sometimes, but often not, if I start with one type of connection and I try to switch to the other one (ethernet or wifi), independtly of having any project.

So I have to :

  1. start the bomebox, go to the web config with wifi, untick the project.
  2. restart the bomebox with ethernet plugged-in
  3. go to the webconfig and select my project

With this way of doing things it always work, but it's quite heavy procedure, and I'm a little bit worried of the unstability of the connection with my computer.

Am I doing something wrong ? How could I make my connection more stable, and easy going ?

Thank you very much, for your help !

 

PS : I added my project in attachment in case it has anything to do with my project


Attachments:
1573925839905_avecUC4.bmtp
2

Can you tell me how you have both Ethernet and WiFi configured in you Bomebox and on your computer?
I’ll try and duplicate what you are seeing.

3

I’m not sure what you’re asking. I thing I’ve got the basic configuration.
On wifi :
I choose the network ‘My bomebox’ and it connects.
With ethernet, I plug it into my computer and it connects.

I’ve tried to connect to ip manually but I never got lucky that way.

4

From what you are saying when connecting via WiFi if your BomeBox is in it’s default setting as a WiFi Hotspot. It will put out it’s own SSID “My BomeBox”. You should always be able to connect here as long as WiFi is enabled and you have chosen the SSIS “My BomeBox” with your computer.

From your manual procedure, it appears this must always work since you say you go to Webconfig and then uncheck your project? So I’m unclear on why you say sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Can you always get to Webconfig? If so, what is not working (sometimes)? Is your computer perhaps connecting to a different network?

When you choose ethernet, it appears that you are connecting BomeBox directly to the PC (or MAC) ethernet port which puts the BomeBox into a special mode called APIPA. In this mode the PC and the BomeBox will negotiate the network address but this doesn’t always work with all PC’s especially if they are also connected to a different wireless network. Can you disconnect your PC from any other networks and see if the BomeBox will always connect?

Outside of APIPA mode, the BomeBox acts as a DCHP client (by default) and requires a DHCP host to assign the BomeBox a network address. So normally in ethernet mode you should connect your BomeBox to another LAN port on a router (or switch) that is connected to other ethernet devices on your LAN.

Now if you want to always connect your BomeBox via LAN directly to a computer, you should configure the BomeBox as a DHCP master and then disable any other network connections when connecting to your BomeBox in this fashion. Then the BomeBox will act like a router to the computer and assign the computer a network address.

I suspect that the main issue here lies with the ethernet configuration settings and whether your computer is connected to another network when trying to connect your computer directly to your BomeBox. You might have better luck if you do not attempt to connect it directly to your computer and instead connect it to a common router or switch and leave the BomeBox ethernet in the current ethernet client mode. I think this would be the most reliable.

 

I’m not sure how well things will operate with Bome Network in APIPA mode, so if you want to permanently attach it in this fashion I might need to do a bit more research. Also, may need to have some special settings on your computer if you want to concurrently use BomeBox as ethernet direct connect while having other network connections available. Ideally, in the ethernet configuration, you would have your BomeBox and your computer attached to the same DHCP host router instead of directly to each other.

 

So could you

  1. Confirm that in WiFi mode you can always get to Webconfig once selecting “My BomeBOX” as your SSID?
  2. If after you do this, Web Config is working, let me know what is not?
  3. Try connecting your computer and BomeBox each to a router (or switch) on and existing wired network and see if this works.
  4. Try disconnecting your computer from existing network before trying to connect BomeBox directly to the computer and tell me if WebConfig works. If it works, does anything else appear broken.

Do all tests with your project file selected since this is where you seem to be having trouble.

Also, let me know what version of BomeNetwork you are running, whether your computer is Mac or PC and what version of OS it is running.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

5

Thank you very much for this very thorough answer !

Maybe I should explain what I’m trying to acheive :

I’ve got several synth and controller connected to the bomebox as a midi hub. Also there is some light scripting in the bomebox.

And I’d like to add my macbook to the midi hub (bomebox) as a midi device (not midi host), but in the simplest way (without a midi interface).

So I thought midi through network will be the most obvious, by adding the macbook to the bomebox as a “Network midi device”.

And it is, it works great (with ethernet) when I manage it : -> no latency, and when I start my drum machine, it sends a midi message on my macbook and my DAW starts in sync, GREAT ! I tested with midi over wifi, but there is too much latency.

What is confusing is that the bomebox never sees my computer as a “Network midi device” when connected to it by the ethernet and with my project file selected (I check with my phone connected on the bomebox with wifi), and sometimes it works when my computer is connected to the bomebox network with wifi, but not always.

But IT ALWAYS WORKS when I boot the bomebox with my macbook connected to it with ethernet with no project file selected (I select it afterwards on the webconfig). And my macbook can be connected on the internet with wifi (this is what I’m doing now when I post on the forum, my computer is still used as a “network midi device” by the bomebox with an ethernet connexion).

So concerning your questions :

  1. In wifi mode, I can always connect to my webconfig, never had any problem in any imaginable configuration, always work great
  2. webconfig is working, but if I booted the bomebox with a BMTP file, I would probably not see my computer as a “network midi device” in the “network midi” tab in the webconfig.
  3. I’m sorry, I don’t have enough rj45 cables to test that configuration right now (I’ve got only one with me …).
  4. I did all my tests with the wifi of the computer turned off at first (I was connecting to the webconfig of the bomebox with my phone over wifi, to check if the bomebox could see my computer as a “Network midi device”). But with ethernet, even if the bomebox gave an Ip adress to my computer, I couldn’t always go the webconfig. => But once more, if I boot the bomebox without my BMTP file, connected to my computer by ethernet, it always works -> I can go to webconfig, and use my computer as a “Network midi device”

I hope I’ve been a little bit more clear.

I have a workaround that works, but it’s not a straight one, and I’d like to enjoy this config in a safer, clearer way. And simpler that booting the bomebox, going to the webconfig over wifi, unselect the bmtp file, reboot it connected to my computer on ethernet, going to the webconfig, and select my bmtp file !

Thank you very much for your help.

6

Few more informations :
– Bome Network v1.2.1
– macbook pro with mac os High Sierra
– I’ve tried to boot the bomebox connected to the computer by ethernet, and the computer connected on the internet with wifi, and it didn’t work even without bmtp files selected (the only configuration that does not work with no bmtp file)

7

OK, I suggest if you want to connect BomeBox to Computer direct with Ethernet (with no router in between), you configure the ethernet side of the BomeBox as an ethernet master. Be sure you do not use Wi-Fi on your computer when doing so. BomeBox will then assign your computer an IP address. This is not my best recommendation.

If you have an existing router, it would be even better (best recomendatin) to connect both your computer and BomeBox to the LAN ports of the router and leave the BomeBox configured as an ethernet client. In this configuration, your computer will also still be able to access the internet (that is if your router is connected to the internet). In this case, your existing router assigns an IP address to both BomeBox and your computer. I wouldn’t recommend using WiFi either on your BomeBox or your computer in this configuration as they will be on different networks.

You should still be able to use WiFI from your phone to access the web config however since the WiFi and ethernet are on different networks, they will more than likely not be able to talk to each other unless you set up some advanced routing on the BomeBox.

As a HotSpot, the BomeBox defaults to IP addres 192.168.153.1

As a Ethernet master, your BomeBox will default to IP address 192.168.1.1

As you can see, they are on different networks.

For APIPA mode the address I get for my BomeBox is 169.254.6.211, but this might vary depending on the APIPA negotiation protocol.

I also noticed that in the APIPA mode the netmask is 255.255.0.0 instead of the default of 255.255.255.0 (for the other modes). What this means is that their broadcast address are also different and broadcast requires that the network portion of the IP address needs to be the same for all attached devices on that network. Bome Network uses broadcast packets (on the same network) to identify other hosts on the network.

If the netmask or network is different, they cannot find each other unless you set up special manual routing.

The only reason, I might see them not identifying each other when your project file is loaded is perhaps the way you defined the attached devices or routing in the project file. The project file settings generally override the BomeBox default settings on open devices and midi routes when you load it.

The BomeBox tries to “remember” the settings from the last time it was running so if you switched from WiFi to ethernet, the old settings might be remembered incorrectly, but they should still be able to connect.

Another thing that I’ve found as that you should always initiate the network connection from the same point. If you try an initiate a connection on BomeBox and initiate the same connection, Bome Network can get confused so you should delete all pending connections, then re-initiate them in the order you always want them. I anticipate over time, Bome Network will get smarter about this.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

 

 

8

Thank you very much for those informations. I’m going to carry on with my workaround and at the same time I ordered a nano router to try your solution 2.

I’m a little bit surprised that it is so complicated or that we need an extra router. Here is what the manual says about Midi network connection :

For a MIDI connection from a computer to a BomeBox, first install the Bome Network Tool on the computer (see page 5).For setting up a Network MIDI connection, follow these steps:

  1. Connect the two BomeBoxes (A and B) or BomeBox A and computer B via Ethernet or WiFi.
  2. Make sure that A and B have different names.
  3. In the Web Config of BomeBox A, go to the Network MIDI page.
  4. In the list of Network MIDI devices, find device B and click on the Connect button next to its name.
  5. If you’re connecting to BomeBox B, approve the pairing by pressing the blinking Pair button on BomeBox B. Alternatively, you can also approve the pairing inthe Web Config of BomeBox B.
  6. If you’re connecting to a computer B, approve the pairing on the pop-up window on computer B.
  7. Pairings are maintained and remembered until manually disconnected or canceled.
  8. Note: the Bome Network tool can also be used to initiate a pairing.

You can also connect to another BomeBox or computer by en-tering the IP address directly. This advanced option is neces-sary, if the device to connect to is not in the same subnet as this BomeBox.

Maybe it’ll be easier in future update.

Thanks for all the advices.

9

Hi, sorry it seems so complicated. Yes APIPA mode was developed as a workaround for network configurations that did not supply DHCP and did not have a router. Almost all networks, these days have a router and DHCP support. APIPA also uses class B networking while most home configurations use class C, so routing to and from a class B to class see network does not look trivial. I did look up this solution and most recommend to get a managed switch and use VLANs to connect them.

Even on item 8 above, you can only use this method if the router has a routing table to the target IP address.

I’m really not a networking expert (as much as I try) but I can generally provide solutions that are straight forward in the networking world. I have a message into the experts on this subject to see if there is a more simple/elegant idea.

Solution 1 (DHCP master with BomeBox as a router) is probably the other standard configuration for a direct connection as it does not require purchase of another router/switch and you could use that to create a more standard Class C network. The reason I picked solution 2 was because most environments have an existing router you can connect to.

Let’s see what Florian (our expert) comes back with. Hopefully it will be more elegant.

The issue is less to do with Bome Network and more to do with general computer networking setup.

10

Our philosophy here at Bome is that simple things should be simple to set up, while advanced things are OK to require some more know-how or setup time.

Your scenario, however, seems straight forward to me, and the solution is simple. So I disagree with a conclusion that it’s difficult to get it working. You will not need a separate router, because the BomeBox is a router.

Direct Ethernet connection of BomeBox to a computer
BomeBox should be set to Ethernet Master. APIPA will usually make it work even if Ethernet is (incorrectly) set to the default Client setting, but it’s not as reliable, and may take up to 60 seconds to get active.

WiFi connection to BomeBox without 3rd party WiFi Router
Set BomeBox WiFi to the default HotSpot.

Notes
It does not work well to connect to a BomeBox simultaneously via Ethernet and via WiFi (the Bome Network connection will likely alternate between the 2). But it should work seamlessly to switch from one to another. Check the Bome Network icon: if it shows the check mark, the connection is up.

Loading a translation project in the BomeBox does not have any influence on networking/pairing. However, it does reset the MIDI routes to the routes stored in the project file. We advise to use generic “Network 1”, “Network 2”, etc. aliases in your project files to address remote BomeBoxes and/or remote computers. Unloading the project file will usually revert to the default MIDI routing “every MIDI port to every other MIDI port”. I suspect most of the problems you’re seeing are due to the MIDI routing in your project file.

Let me know.
Florian

11

Thanks Florian!

I guess I recommended #2 assuming an existing network but I guess if there is no existing network #1 would be better and you would not need to have another router (as BomeBox would be the primary router).

12

Hi Florian, thank you for checking my problem.

The problem didn’t come from my project file because I’ve tested it with the files available on the bomebox, and I had exactly the same behaviour. I also deleted the preset with the network routing, and I still had the same behaviour.

But setting the BomeBox to Ethernet Master did resolve my problem !!!

Now it works like a charm, and it was in the manual …

Maybe just a suggestion, in the network midi connection part of the manual, maybe it should be mentionned that the bomebox has to be set to Ethernet Master. Because I scrupully did like in this part of the manual, but the important information was somewhere else.

Anyway thanks again Steve & Florian, and next time I’ll read twice the manual before experimenting hasardously.