suddenly my project won't load

After trimming it down to two presets, then adding stuff back, then adding/removing (including qwerty keyboard) to zero in, it appears that removing patch #16, named \"Xm\" fixes the problem. It\'s hard to be 100% confident because I\'d power cycle 3 times on each test run, but who knows if that\'s enough to rule out randomness or mistakes on my part. I\'m also not confident because that patch #16 isn\'t even enabled, so it doesn\'t make sense to me that it could have an effect.

Also: my BomeBox takes about 55 seconds to boot up, or at least reach a point where my patch works. Is that normal? I watch the blinking lights, but it still takes some time after they reach what looks to me to be a stable state before the patches start responding to the MIDI controller.

So that file worked for a few days over several power cycles, then suddenly stopped working. I’d left my BomeBox untouched, but on the latest power cycle, it had somehow become de-selected, and I could make it work again. I had to reduce to another one from my working collection that has many fewer presets.

Now, even a greatly reduced file doesn't survive more than a couple of power cycles. My box has now gotten steadily worse so that it's unusable without the computer. And it's not usable with the computer because the WiFi has never performed without extreme latency. Is there a previous version of the firmware that would be worth rolling back to at this point? At what point do we conclude the hardware itself is defective?

Drop me an email and I will send you an older version of BomeBox firmware to try. I usually don’t like doing this but it looks like your situation is critical.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

OK, thanks. I’m happy to run tests because I’m out of ideas. The whittling-down method has turned out to be a bust and the problem just seems intermittent, with a mind of its own. I did find the previous firmwares on the web site, but I haven’t tried because downgrading firmware scares me a little. The latest one was 1.3.2–should I try that? Should I do a full reset first? I don’t care if I lose the one loaded preset and have to manually reload it.

My email to you was rejected as spam. There was nothing even remotely spam-like in the short message asking you to email a firmware if the online firmware archive isn’t enough.

First try removing all of the project files you uploaded (after backing up what you need of course). Do a factory reset. Then install just the project file you want to try and see if things stabilize on existing firmware.

If things don’t stabilize from there, do the same after installing older firmware 1.3.2.

I’m sorry that you are having so much trouble!

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

What email address did you try? I’m getting email from others just fine. I know the bome email servers are rejecting some emails as SPAM but my email address bome@sniz.biz which is not a Bome email server seems to be doing OK. Or if not, your’s is the first complaint I’ve heard and I get email at that address daily.

It was indeed bome@sniz.biz. I realize I forwarded an email notification from this web site, then added my message to it. Perhaps that made it look more spam-like.

In any case, I’ll do the re-set and downgrade the next time the box chokes. I might as well enjoy it before I start doing troubleshooting chores.

Hi,
finally I found the time to look into this. Sorry for the long delay. Here are a few findings:

1) Firmware Version
I strongly encourage to use the latest firmware. Especially regarding the persistence of settings such as the currently loaded project file, version 1.4.1 has a number of improvements over previous firmware versions. It is safe to downgrade and upgrade at any time. Just make sure to keep the BomeBox powered during upgrade.
The latest firmware can be downloaded here:
https://www.bome.com/products/bomebox#downloads

2) MIDI DIN port closed
As Steve has pointed out, this is only the case when the DIN port is not used by MIDI routes or the translation project file. So if you also found that the project file got unloaded, then I assume that the closed DIN port is just a symptom rather than the cause. Because when the project is unloaded, the DIN port is likely to not be in use anymore, and therefore it's getting closed. On a side note, the BomeBox only opens the MIDI ports (network, DIN, and USB) when needed in order to use less power.

Another aspect is that your project file does not define the BomeBox DIN port directly rather, you have defined 2 aliases ("BomeBox - Net" and "ZenDrum") and I assume that you then assign one of them to the BomeBox DIN port. The BomeBox remembers these port assignments in the same way as it remembers the currently loaded project file. Now if we assume that somehow saving these settings fails (or loading), then it would also explain why the MIDI port assignment gets lost. See next point.

3) Project suddenly getting unloaded
I have tried a lot to reproduce this, but I could not. Your project file is relatively big, but not anywhere near the practical limit for a BomeBox. With loaded project file, the BomeBox still has 24MB free RAM.

As said above, one theory is that it somehow fails to remember which project file is currently active. The BomeBox logs exactly the parameter of these settings files, you can see notices such as this in the Log screen in the web config:
2020-04-05 10:48:06: save settings OK: last modified=2020-04-05 10:48:06 filesize=535 filename:/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts
When you power cycle the BomeBox, the notice for loading the settings must match the last saving notice before the power cycle.
Note 1: the BomeBox discards the Log when restarting, so be sure to copy/paste it before power cycling when checking this out.
Note 2: If I remember correctly, the Log is not available in the web config in older firmware.

4) Long start-up time
The BomeBox takes approx. 20 seconds until DIN and USB are available. Ethernet setup takes some additional seconds. WiFi takes an additional 10 seconds to be up. In your case, loading the project file takes approx. 20 seconds. That's why you see a relatively long boot time until everything is ready.

5) WiFi latency
You have mentioned that using the BomeBox WiFi exhibits very long latency. In general, the WiFi does not have inherent delay. We know from many customers who use realtime MIDI over WiFi in their live setups. We use the BomeBox WiFi non-stop in our test environment in the office, and use one as a HotSpot for our company WiFi without any problems.

We have only experienced problems when the BomeBox is far away or behind walls etc. Of course, general interferences or other WiFi networks can also degrade performance. Make sure to select your country in the WiFi setup (to leverage the legally allowed WiFi frequencies). In the advanced configuration, you can also manually select a different WiFi channel.

So far for now. I'll keep you posted when I find out anything. Please keep us posted, too!
Best,
Florian

After waiting so long for a response, it's truly disappointing that he did not make one single suggestion of the form, "click this box," or "set this setting," or "make this look like that," etc. If there's a concrete suggestion anywhere in that very long response, then clearly I'm too inexperienced to comprehend it, and I beg for mercy as an inexperienced user. Taking the points separately, here's what I understand:

paragraph 1) Don't downgrade. OK, I understand--and I've never tried downgrading.

paragraph 4) He verifies my startup time is normal. OK, we're finished with that.

paragraph 5) WiFi latency: am I correct that he only basically says "it works great for us"? If that's in fact all he's said, why wouldn't he expect such a response to make an owner of one of these boxes who's been waiting so long to use it very angry? I know it works for other people, but the problem is that mine has never worked. Given that there's nothing at all unusual about my location, why is there not a single diagnostic or suggestion to verify whether or not this particular box is defective? Once again, I verified that upon startup there's no latency, then latency builds up after about 20 MIDI notes. The latency itself isn't even consistent, sometimes notes bunch up, then burst through all at once. Is this behavior symptomatic of my environment, which doesn't differ from an ordinary apartment in any way I've experienced or can imagine?

I can at least work around a defective WiFi or defective apartment--whichever it may be-- if we could just do something about what's in paragraph's 2 and 3, but I simply can't deduce anything to try from the sense I'm able to make of what he's written.

paragraph 2) When he says ".Another aspect is that your project file does not define the BomeBox DIN port directly..." is he saying that's a problem, a potential problem, a routine configuration choice, or what? I have no idea what his intention is here or what he suggests I do to make things more in line with how he designed this box to work. I simply don't understand what to do here or what to change. Let's just proceed as if I don't have the first idea of how the MIDI output, input, and router sections work. If you guys could just say "click this," "verify this looks like that," provide a screenshot, and things like that, then maybe we can make some kind of troubleshooting progress. In the MIDI Output and Input areas, there is no choice that reads "BomeBox DIN Port" as Florian refers to, so I'm completely at a loss as to what he apparently recommends to choose. Perhaps say directly and step-by-step what I should do? I do know that once I unclick something in input or output to test things, then all activity ceases in the event monitor. Then, when I re-click the boxes to make them as they originally appeared, there's still nothing in the event monitor. I have to disconnect from BomeNet, then re-connect to get things working again. Since this behavior strikes me as making no sense at all, I think you will have to hold my hand through these settings and be very literal in your instructions.

paragraph 3) He says, "BomeBox logs exactly the parameter of these settings file," which is a remarkably opaque English sentence to me, and English is my native language. OK, it saves settings, but then there's a reference to a file named ":/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts ." I have no idea what that file is, what its function is, where it comes from, how to look at its contents, and its filename doesn't match my config file. By the way, I only ever have one config file loaded on my BomeBox so that I can eliminate the possibility of that kind of mixup. The relationship of this file named playerheadless.bmts and my .bmtp file is a complete technical mystery to me. I beg of you, treat me like a user--perhaps a power user--but not a software engineer who knows the function of files located in /etc/mt of a Unix system.

I might have thought you guys would make a change or two to my .bmtp file, then send that to me to try. Then I'd report back. Then you'd tweak again, etc. At this point, I think it would be best if you treated me like a non-technical person who's good only at executing literally what you say to do in manageable increments because it's clear that I'm unable to understand the workings of this device sufficiently to troubleshoot it.

Perhaps you could start out with a concrete series of steps I can take to make my MIDI OUTPUT and MIDI INPUT sections look the way Florian seemingly expected them to look? Or is there some diagnostic to run to make sure this particular box isn't defective?

 

 

 

Hi. Let me see if I can help here. I've created 2 project files. One will run on your computer and the other on you BomeBox.

The project file named bb-test-computer.bmtp should be loaded on the computer.

The project file named BB-Net-Loopback.bmtp should be uploaded and run on your BomeBox.

First I assume your BomeBox and Computer have connectivity. The below tutorials should help you get this set up but I think you are probably past this point.

Pairing BomeBox - Tutorial

https://youtu.be/xfdspJuBAHg

BomeBox Web Config Overview

https://youtu.be/RvQaCzkYYls

 

Other BomeBox Tutorials

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzwHsH6-VZ8SJw5VztKiEDleEFAx8p7K8

 

  1. Upload BB-Net-Loopback.bmtp to your BomeBox and run it. Set up the aliases both to your network computer.
  2. Verify that your routing has automatically been set up as a loopback by looking at your MIDI routes
  3. Start the file bb-test-computer.bmtp on your computer.
  4. You should be prompted to assign your aliases. Assign them to your BomeBox. If you miss this or have them incorrectly assigned, you can re-assign them from the MIDI menu.

The project file should start sending notes to your BomeBox every 500ms. If it doesn't, the Caps Lock key will both start and stop the MIDI stream.

Open the log window and ensure that the messages are getting looped back correctly. You should see something like the attached.

 

Another thing to look at that may affect WiFI performance is the country setup. Make sure you select your country in the Setting page.

 

OK, once this testing is complete. Power off your BomeBox. You can leave the project running on your computer but the messages coming back from BomeBox will stop.

After about 10 seconds, power on your BomeBox again. The power light should start to flash. When it stops flashing, the pairing should re-establish. If it does not, please report what you had to do to reconnect to your computer.

Once re-connected, the log should start seeing returned MIDI messages again as the project on the BomeBox should start thereby re-establishing the loopback.

If everything is working at this point, then the issue is likely somewhere in your project file (since you are now using the project files I posted). I'm happy to take a quick look at it again to see if I can find any issues. Let me know if you have made any changes.

If things to not work as expected with this procedure, please let me know in as much detail what is happening so we can figure next steps.

 

Other things that might help:

I'm not sure if I asked this but can you tell me how you have your BomeBox powered? Is it being powered via a USB hub, USB power adapter, POE? Also, lets review the devices attached and how they are attached. If I remember you had something on the MIDI DIN port. Do you have anything attached to USB ports? Are you using a USB powered hub. Any specific configuration details should help

 

In doing this testing, make sure that you only have your network attached (no devices). If the problem only exhibits an issue if there are devices attached, please clarify which devices and how they are attached.

 

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

 

 


Attachments:
![](upload://lY8GZYZsTq3EgMemCnMMKSDQ1Je.png)
![](upload://leVO0J6j0fH2zka0vZYgFbanHQg.png)
![](upload://zJADbReAea3wkmasV93ClyZJLQ6.png)
![](upload://mMlO2SLG64HmzoxEf2k7znuZf7Z.png)
1586185269818_BB-Net-Loopback.bmtp
1586185269843_bb-test-computer.bmtp

After looking over this case again, I think the most likely cause here will be how power is provided to BomeBox along with how much power is drawn from any attached USB devices.  If suggest you look at that FIRST before running any tests as without stable power, you may get mixed results. Let's focus on power to make sure that is stable before we move on to anything else.  In my experience, most issues with BomeBox rebooting, or not behaving properly after reboot ended up being power related. 

Some tips:

 

1) Do not use USB charging ports for BomeBox power as they tend to vary in voltage as they are trying to charge a battery and do not provide consistent power. Your power should provide a consistent 5V of power. The BomeBox uses about 150ma of power but attached devices may take up to another 1a so I would recomment at least your power supply can deliver about 1.2 amps of consistent 5v of power.

 

2) If you have multiple USB devices attached to your BomeBox, I recomment powering it with a POE adapter instead of the micro usb port as the POE adapter provides a higher voltage to BomeBox and make it less sensitive to slight voltage variations that take place when connecting or disconnecting attached USB devices. I like the POE option as well as it has a nice locking mechanism.

I hope this helps and sorry for not thinking of power sooner!

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

Thanks, I'll start this testing tomorrow. For now, I'll let you know that it's powered via an iPhone charger that's plugged directly into an outlet. My configuration is a MIDI controller (Zendrum) plugged into the MIDI in, and MIDI out to a series of MIDI sound modules. I've reduced the sound modules to my minimum of two. I can also unplug the USB keyboard.

Another thing making this task utterly difficult is this forum's layout. It's in some kind of reverse chronological order in nested groups that are in forward chronological order, confused by the nested levels that depend on whether an "add comment" was done, or a "post your answer." The "add comment" spins forever when added, but after a page reload, it shows the comment posted, but with all formatting removed, including carriage returns so that posts of any length are unreadable. Then I have to delete it and go to the bottom of the page's "post answer." But when I "post answer," I can't see what I'm responding to it's so far away, so I have to keep re-finding what I'm responding to by scrolling up and down the page, then remember, then scroll back down, then type something, then scroll back up to refind your post. I've been on hundreds of forums in my life, and I've never seen one laid out like this. Unless it's a very recent cluster, I just can't follow the thread of what's gone on, and it's no wonder you forgot whatever it is you said you forgot--I'm sorry, I'd have to scroll up, re-read your post again to remind myself of what you forgot, then scroll back down to the bottom of the page, then scroll back up to refind it because I don't dare make any errors and confuse things and waste our time, or retrace my steps, etc....The lack of formatting, quoting, proper nested levelling and predictable chronological order--what decade is this forum software from?

Can I ask you to go over to Elektronauts or Muff Wiggler and we'll open a discussion thread there to handle this?

I just got an email notification of your \"after looking over this case again\" response, and good God, if it weren\'t for the email notification, I don\'t see how I ever would have found that response in this forum software\'s chaotic and utterly unintelligibly formatted layout. As noted before, it has some sort of inconsistently nested leveling, but without indentation so that everything so that you just can\'t follow what the hell is going on. I beg of you: meet me at Elektronauts.

EDIT: Omigod, the thing you said, which this is a response to, is two posts down, with my more recent one intervening. This thread is a huge, unreadable mess. Emailing back and forth would be more clear and efficient.

Hi, yes along with software development we are exploring other forum based solutions. We are aware or the current forum issues. If you provide a link for the forum you want to discuss this, I will see if I can sign in or sign up there and link to it from here.

Although some iphone external batters I’ve found OK, some of them also act like a “fast charging” device so I would suggest trying something else for a while to see if your problem goes away.

I actually had an external battery for my iphone that misbehaved so badly it destroyed my iphone battery and I had to buy a new battery. Once I started using the external battery, my iphone battery was completely dependent on the external battery and would not last more than just a few hours on it’s own. It is best to stick with a standard USB power adapter or better still if AC power is available use a POE adapter.

Steve

Thank you for verifying this forum software is an issue. I'd been embarassed to say so, thinking I must be stupid in some way.

I've created this thread at Elektronauts:

https://www.elektronauts.com/t/steve-from-bome-helping-blipson-thread/127533

If we could start with you re-posting your "let's start" info, I would appreciate it. I can get to this within 24 hours, but must now take a break because, quite frankly, my experience on this board in the last few hours has been quite maddening.

 

OK posted your original report and the diagnostic procedure there. Looks like the admins there marked it as private.

Steve, I've finally received and configured everything with an iConnectivity mioXM. All the same problems continue. I've continued our discussion in our Elektronauts conversation. Can you please continue to communicate with me there?