Why does BMTranslator send something when closing

Hi, I worked hard whole day to find what's going on with my Octatrack not playing a six of eight midi tracks at all after setting and developing big project together with BMT. Soloing tracks in Octatrack is quite hidden feature so it's impossible to do it by mistake but I finally find that I had two midi tracks soloed! Stupid me. User error? But how? Eureka -> I captured that after closing BMT two of my midi tracks (Tr 1, Tr 4) become soloed, muting the rest. See below what the app is sending to midi output while closing:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT 
Opened MIDI Input
29840 1 -- 176 64 0 1 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29841 1 -- 176 120 127 1 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29842 1 -- 176 123 127 1 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29843 1 -- 177 64 0 2 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29844 1 -- 177 120 127 2 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29845 1 -- 177 123 127 2 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29846 1 -- 178 64 0 3 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29848 1 -- 178 120 127 3 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29849 1 -- 178 123 127 3 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29850 1 -- 179 64 0 4 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29851 1 -- 179 120 127 4 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29852 1 -- 179 123 127 4 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29853 1 -- 180 64 0 5 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29854 1 -- 180 120 127 5 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29855 1 -- 180 123 127 5 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29856 1 -- 181 64 0 6 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29857 1 -- 181 120 127 6 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29858 1 -- 181 123 127 6 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29859 1 -- 182 64 0 7 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29861 1 -- 182 120 127 7 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29862 1 -- 182 123 127 7 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29863 1 -- 183 64 0 8 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29864 1 -- 183 120 127 8 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29865 1 -- 183 123 127 8 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29866 1 -- 184 64 0 9 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29867 1 -- 184 120 127 9 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29868 1 -- 184 123 127 9 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29869 1 -- 185 64 0 10 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29870 1 -- 185 120 127 10 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29871 1 -- 185 123 127 10 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29872 1 -- 186 64 0 11 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29873 1 -- 186 120 127 11 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29874 1 -- 186 123 127 11 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29875 1 -- 187 64 0 12 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29876 1 -- 187 120 127 12 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29877 1 -- 187 123 127 12 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29878 1 -- 188 64 0 13 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29880 1 -- 188 120 127 13 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29881 1 -- 188 123 127 13 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29882 1 -- 189 64 0 14 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29883 1 -- 189 120 127 14 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29884 1 -- 189 123 127 14 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29885 1 -- 190 64 0 15 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29886 1 -- 190 120 127 15 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29887 1 -- 190 123 127 15 --- CC: All Notes Off 
29888 1 -- 191 64 0 16 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain) 
29889 1 -- 191 120 127 16 --- CC: All Sound Off 
29890 1 -- 191 123 127 16 --- CC: All Notes Off

According to Octatrack MIDI CC Mappings, everything becomes clearer:

$78 120 MIDI Trk 1 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$79 121 MIDI Trk 2 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$7A 122 MIDI Trk 3 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$7B 123 MIDI Trk 4 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$7C 124 MIDI Trk 5 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$7D 125 MIDI Trk 6 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$7E 126 MIDI Trk 7 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 
$7F 127 MIDI Trk 8 Solo [0]=Unsolo, [1-127]=Solo 

This is messing my setup. Whay is that? Is that necessary? Thank you.


Attachments:
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Wow, in the years I’ve worked with MT Pro, I have NEVER seen it send out extra messages when closing. Maybe if you told me more about the environment and posted your project file:

Are you running on PC or Mac?

What application did you use to capture the extraneous MIDI messages?

What other MIDI enabled applications are running in your configuration?

Is your Octatrack connected via USB or MIDI DIN port?

If using a USB to MIDI interface, what cable/interface are you using?

What version of MIDI Translator are you using?

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

If you send SHIFT+ESC to MT Pro it sends a panic message and MT Pro generates all notes off and all sound off CC’s on any current open ports. I’m not sure where the sustain messages are coming from. Do you have any applications that send Shift+ESC?

Hi, I’ll be without Octatack till evening (Europe) then be able to do more tests again.
I have also tested the behaviour on a new project with no translators at all creating midi loopback with my 5din cable (emu Xmidi 2×2 usb interface on Win10) to capture messages with Midi OX.
Please try it yourself.
More info later, thank you.

OK, it looks like this behaviour is not related to Octatrack at all. OT is only a victim that showed up something new. So I can capture these messages with my midi interface only, midi loopback, with new empty BMT project.

Watch the short video I prepared to show details under the link: https://youtu.be/bi8YKeum3Fk

My workaround is to simply turn off the OT before closing BMT or/and check internal mixer page to monitor mutes/solos.

Please let me know what do you think and if you are able to reproduce the bahaviour and capture those messages with your setup. Is it related to E-MU old midi interface development/firmware, BMT bug or something normal?

Thank you.

Apologies for speaking out of turn, but i wouldnt be surprised if this is the EMu interface recognising that the sending device (MTPro) is disconnecting…similar to the whole “active sensing” gig…and being helpy by sending out an All Notes Off msg.

 

My questions would be: did you install the driver for the interface? Im thinking its class compliant, so id try it without the driver.

 

EDIT TO ADD:
Sorry, i get lost in this Q&A format and I don\\\'t know if it\\\'s been mentioned that CCs 64, 120, and 123 are commonly sent from Sequencers and similar devices when a [Stop] is implemented. CC64 is connected to the Damper Pedal effect, and 120 & 123 are All Sound Off and All Notes Off respectively. I think some of my old sequencers made it a habit of sending those on all Channels when something was stopped. I don\\\'t know if that\\\'s still a thing because I stopped thinking about it.

And EMu is kind of old stuff, no?
I grew up down the street from them, actually and still have my \\\'bought as new\\\' Orbit, in addition to 2 more Orbit V2s, a Planet Earth, an XL-1, and a Proformance. So I\\\'d imagine if that was the \\\'standard\\\' back then, then it\\\'d make sense that any sensing being done by the interface would think, \\\"Hey, this input got disconnected, I\\\'d better be helpy and send this stuff out.\\\"

EDIT AGAIN TO ADD:
Kind of silly for Elektron to use those CCs tho, eh? That\'s like saying CC 7 will be routed to Filter Cutoff and CC10 will be routed to how hot grandma likes her tea. LOL

 

 

Followup:
Setup a smaller system-
Laptop => UMOne (Interface => OT

I built a quick Translator to send All Notes Off CC/OT MIDI Track Solo. Triggering the Translator works as expected (solos the OT Track), but closing the MTPro program does not send aforementuoned CC msgs as evidenced by OT Solo states remaining unchanged.

Hi I’m not able to reproduce the problem with My UMC 404HD MIDI Interface.

I know you probably don’t want to buy another MIDI interface so I also tested with LoopMIDI virtual MIDI and was not able to reproduce it there.

I suspect the issue mus be your MIDI interface.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

Instead of Looping MIDI-1 Out of your MIDI interface back to MIDI-1 In of your interface, try looping MIDI-1 Out of your interface to MIDI-2 In on your interface. I suspect you might be getting a MIDI loop and the interface is recognizing this as a problem and generating a Panic message back to itself.

In looking at the manual for the XMIDI Interface, it seems that it is not Class Compliant – that is, it needs drivers to run. I’m assuming you’re on a PC, but it would seem that the DirectMusic functions of the drivers are probably the culprit.

As mentioned I have a different interface, but MTPro on a Laptop and/or BomeBox and an OT and I cannot duplicate

Jim, (CreepyPants). Yes it looks like an old non-class compliant MIDI interface.

I also searched and most music stores no longer sell it.

EMu hasn’t been around for a loooong time.
I applied for a job there once! I think I was 19. LOL
It’s definitely not Class Compliant, btw.

Ah, when dinosaurs ruled 😉

Thank you,
All you said sounds resonably, I suspected my old E-MU.
I jumped back into midi not long ago together with BMT and started with midi interface I found in my gear storage. The next one I purchased will be available in january (Blokas Mudihub) so I am sure to meet no more WTF moments in near future.
Thank you again.

Issue partly resolved with statement:

”Old non-class-compilant E-MU Xmidi 2×2 midi interface (driver) sends reset/panic messages while disconecting”.

BomeBox cannot replace my old midi interface, right? I mean – use it connected to PC while building and testing BMT projects. I can only upload projects to BomeBox and test it from there, as it is, right?

Hi, I followed the advice and checked if midi out1 > in2 is gamechanging… Same result. I have to accept the behaviour of emu interface until I try another one. Now, as I know him, I can play with the enemy 🙂 Thanks.

Glad we could help. Let us know what you are planning on buying and if I have one I can tell you whether it works OK. Best to buy something that has decent buffer size (for System Exclusive Message processing) and that is USB MIDI class compliant (no drivers required).

Steve

No, BomeBox is not a MIDI interface per se, however you can use it as a host with Bome Network to your PC or Mac. The computer would only see any BomeBox attached devices as one MIDI data stream however. I think this will change at some point in the future.

I found this one used on Amazon for $25 USD and it works well for me. I don’t know if I would pay the new price of $50 USD for it though.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077X92SYD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1