I inquired about this at Elektronauts, but after a day with no response, I discovered I should have posted at this forum anyways, so here goes:
My new BomeBox with MIDI Translator Pro works as expected, but I’d like to make sure I’m not having computer issues. Once I’ve developed a project’s translators and loaded the project into the BomeBox and activated it, it responds as expected, i.e., instantaneously. While developing the translator in the software, though, the latency is pretty bad, making the Bome Network only useful for developing stuff. Is this normal? I’ll have the opportunity to compare with ethernet within a couple of days.
Thanks for your question. I suspect if the latency is only when on your computer, the latency issue is with the computer plugin or sound engine. For instance, I've noticed a lot of latency with Microsoft included synth engine in Windows, however if I use a plugin instrument in Ableton Live, I experience no noticible latency.
Steve Caldwell Bome Q and A Moderator and Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist bome@sniz.biz
I should have explained more because maybe I'm configuring something wrong, though I don't think so. I have a hardware MIDI controller going into the BomeBox's DIN, then the other DIN outputs to a hardware sound module's MIDI in. I'm developing translations of the controller's many MIDI triggers to do stuff on the sound module, about 60 translators. Everything works 100% correctly.
While developing, the computer is on the BomeBox's WiFi, and I connect with BomeNetwork. The minimum number of MIDI routes are set up. Everything on the WebConfig works as expected in my browser. When I play any of the controller's triggers, they register instantaneously in MIDI Translator's data monitoring windows, but the sound module has pronounced latency before it plays what was fed to it. If you tap out a rhythm, it's totally distorted due to the latency. One in 10 times, the trigger happens without latency. I develop and verify the preset this way, then when it's done, I save it onto the BomeBox and select it. Once it's active this way, it plays beautifully, no latency that you can feel. I can live with this, I suppose because it will cover my particular needs. But I'd like to verify that this kind of latency is a known price to pay with WiFi and BomeNetwork because WiFi. I suspect it's not, and that the WiFi configuration is meant to be musically useful even if it's not recommended for live gigs.
In your case it may be that there is just too much WiFi traffic causing many packet "collisions" which cause the delay. Is there a way you can go to ethernet connection instead and see if that helps?
Typically, I create projects entirely on my PC or Mac (using aliases) without using network MIDI and then upload the project to BomeBox for execution (redefining the aliases on the BomeBox).
You can also direct the traffic to a SW synth on your PC for development and then use the same redefined alias on your BomeBox for sending to the actual hardware. Or if you have the right adapter, you can hook up the actual device to your PC that way for development.
Once you load the project onto BomeBox, everything is then local so not subject to WiFi latency and noise.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
It sounds like your saying that the WiFi latency isn't of itself indicative of a basic problem or error, so that's good. As an inexperienced user, I don't dare develop without immediate feedback to verify behavior, and the WiFi connection does make it much easier to do that even with the latency. I did try a software instrument, but get the same horrible WiFi latency. I'll soon have an ethernet/USB-C adapter for my Mac, so I'll see if that more convenient way to work will also solve the latency problem.
May it is not WiFi after all. I you post your project file and how you have you BomeBox routing set up, perhaps I will find another issue. Also make sure you download and upgrade to the latest BomeBox firmware. I had some issues with 1.0 a while back similar to what you are experiencing so maybe that is it.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
Here's my project file attached. The MIDI out of the controller called "zd" is connected to the BomeBox's MIDI in DIN. The MIDI in of the sound module called "p23" is connected to the BomeBox's MIDI out DIN.
OK, so on your PC I assume you are sending and receiving from the BomeBox network port and then you have a route from your PC network port set in your BomeBox to the DIN connector out and another route from you DIN connector in back to the PC. Is this correct? Are you running BomeBox version 1.4.1 and Bome Network version 1.2.1? Could you take screenshots of the WiFI configuration page on your BomeBox and the MIDI ports and MIDI routing pages?
I assume while you are testing, you are not running a project file as well on BomeBox, correct?
Off hand, I don’t see any issues with your project file. I assume you know you have a 1.5 second delay on a few of the notes off translators. They are titled “delay” so I suppose that is what you want.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
Yes, versions 1.4.1 and 1.2.1.
Right, when I\'m testing, no project is loaded.
Yes, those delays are intentional.
I\'ve attached screenshots of my MIDI Routes and MIDI Ports. The computer\'s name is \"GRAY\"
One more variable: my BomeBox is about 2 feet from the computer, yet the WiFi connection sometimes goes down unless I sit the BomeBox on top of another piece of hardware instead of behind it, but that hardware is only a few inches tall. Since this small difference makes a big difference to stability, I wonder if the WiFi connection is more unstable than it appears. I have a WiFi router and bridge in the same room, if that matters. Another thing: when I unload the project, I get about 50 triggers work well before the latency kicks in.
I won\'t be able to test ethernet until I get a USB-C/ethernet adapter, which will be at least 4 days from now.
OK, I don't see a screen shot of WiFi settings. Do you have it set up as Hotspot, Client or Access point. If you have it set up as Access point is ethernet also connected? If so, set it up either as a client (if you want to WiFi through your existing network) or as a HotSpot (if you want to to use the BomeBox network. If you have it as an access point, the BomeBox might get confused since it has two networks and might be trying to connect through both with different IP addresses. If that is the case Bome Network would bounce back and forth between the WiFi and ethernet connections, thereby creating quite a mess of things.
The other possibility is that you may have a very noisy WiFi environment or perhaps the country settings on your BomeBox is not set up for your country.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
I forgot, it’s HotSpot.
The country code was 00-World, but performance improved when I switched it to my specific location. But now the problem doesn’t seem like latency, but rather many notes not lasting long enough, i.e., note on’s often sound like they’re getting truncated. With the World country code, I now suspect it was some latency and some truncation. Also, this pattern of the first 20 or so note on’s playing without a problem after un-selecting a loaded preset continues. After about 20 or so notes, the problem begins.
I forgot, it's HotSpot.
The country code was 00-World, but performance improved when I switched it to my specific location. But now the problem doesn't seem like latency, but rather many notes not lasting long enough, i.e., note on's often sound like they're getting truncated. With the World country code, I now suspect it was some latency and some truncation. Also, this pattern of the first 20 or so note on's playing without a problem after un-selecting a loaded preset continues. After about 20 or so notes, the problem begins.
In BomeBox, I set up 1 route MacBook to Macbook as a loopback
In the project file I put a trough route BomeBox2 to BMT 2
I set up a virtual instrument in Ableton Live (Funky Organ)
I then tested for latency and saw none, so I must assume that the issue has to do with your current WiFi environment. I did notice you had a few "sustain" notes so they appeared stuck but it looks like this was by design.
Virtual KeyBoard (BMT 1)-> zd - p23 (BomeBox with loopback) -> BMT2 (thru route) -> Ableton Live Funky Organ
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
If the notes are not lasting long enough, maybe check the decay on your synth. Note should not turn off until you release a key. There is nothing in your project file to turn off a note earlier (that I can see).
I understand, but even though there’s lots of WiFi activity going on in this studio, it’s not more than you’d routinely expect to see. It would be unfortunate if the device were really that sensitive. I’ll see what happens with ethernet, because that’s probably more desirable to use anyway. I’ll also try another computer.
Remember that the project plays 100% as expected when loaded in the BomeBox. The suspected truncation/latency issue only happens when the same preset is used over WiFi. So it’s not settings on the synth.
Just to let you know, for each trigger on my controller that triggers a sustained note (sends a note on with no note off), there’s a corresponding trigger that sends conventional note on/note off combo to the same voice. I set these pairs up intentionally to work together, for example to simulate open high hat that’s choked by a high hat pedal sound.
I understand, but even though there\'s lots of WiFi activity going on in this studio, it\'s not more than you\'d routinely expect to see. It would be unfortunate if the device were really that sensitive. I\'ll see what happens with ethernet, because that\'s probably more desirable to use anyway. I\'ll also try another computer.
Remember that the project plays 100% as expected when loaded in the BomeBox. The suspected truncation/latency issue only happens when the same preset is used over WiFi. So it\'s not settings on the synth.
Just to let you know, for each trigger on my controller that triggers a sustained note (sends a note on with no note off), there\'s a corresponding trigger that sends conventional note on/note off combo to the same voice. I set these pairs up intentionally to work together, for example to simulate open high hat that sustains until it\'s choked by a high hat pedal sound.
OK, this is not normal behavior. We know customers that play 16 channel MIDI files via WiFI from laptop to BomeBox over long distances with no trouble.
Perhaps you can send the log files so we can investigate further.
On Mac, you can see the log files in the /tmp folder
On BomeBox click on the LOG button after logging in. You can clear the log, then check verbose and then do some more testing and we should see more of what is going on.
Also make sure you don't have duplicate pairing for the same MIDI connections by looking at your network MIDI connection on your BomeBox.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
One more variable: my BomeBox is about 2 feet from the computer, yet the WiFi connection sometimes goes down unless I sit the BomeBox on top of another piece of hardware instead of behind it, but that hardware is only a few inches tall. Since this small difference makes a big difference to stability, I wonder if the WiFi connection is more unstable than it appears.
Leads me to believe you have some piece of equipment in your studio generating a lot of electromagnetic interference. It may not even be WiFi. Try moving your BomeBox away from your other gear and see if things improve. Also after setting to the proper country code, restart you BomeBox so that it remembers it. Each country has its own regulations as to which channels to use so if that is not set correctly (either on your BomeBox or other equipment), that could cause unintended RF interference and issues like you may be experiencing.
For me, WiFi is great in my studio and I use it almost exclusively. When you go to a new performance venue, however more risk is involved as you don't always have control of the environment. Consequently, I keep a long ethernet cable handing for this type of situation.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz
I’ll do the log file stuff later, but I should let you know quickly that the piece of equipment is a Roland Jupiter-Xm, which now makes my placement kind of asking for trouble. I have space issues, but I’ll re-arrange things to free up the BomeBox because I can consistently make my computer lose WiFi sight of the BomeBox by moving it just a few inches this way or that.
](https://www.bome.com/wp-content/uploads/cma_attachments/1580999539360_MIDIPorts.png){kind=link}
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