Second MIDI Port no longer visible

Bome Products
1

I have a Novation Launchpad Mini Mk3 (LMM3) that presents two MIDI IN and two MIDI out ports. The first is for Ableton Session view and the second port is for ‘everything else’ (User modes and Programmer modes).

I use the second port …

… which is now gone. Don’t know what happened.

It used to show up via the BomeBox in Bome Network.

If I plug the LMM3 USB directly into a Wintel host, both ports show up. Windows names the second ports ‘MIDIIN2 (LPMiniMK3 MIDI)’ and ‘MIDIOUT2 (LPMiniMK3 MIDI)’.

Now when I plug the LMM3 back into the USB Hub that the BomeBox is connected to, only one In and one Out port show up for the LMM3 (Both called ‘Launchpad Mini Mk3’). Other devices with multiple MIDI ports show up with all their ports. Only the LMM3 device is affected.

Is there some system or feature where the BomeBox hides ports?

2

I should have mentioned that I’ve rebooted all hardware involved …

3

Not which I’m aware.
Have you tried plugging in through a powered USB hub? What are you using to power the BomeBox?
What version of firmware is the BomeBox running?

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
4

The hub is an i-Tikol 16-port usb hub powered to supply up to 1.5 A on any particular port … (max 10A total across all ports).

I’m using PoE to power the BomeBox.

BomeBox Firmware v1.5.4 (according to Bome Network).

Maybe there’s a filter in Bome Network (BN)?

I’m using these settings in BN, although I don’t understand them:

Auto-accept connections without confirmation: ON
Auto-reject connection requests: OFF
Hide discovery notifications: OFF

THANKS for the help!

5

Does the device show up when you go to the BomeBox web page directly? If checking from Bome Network, make sure Remote MIDI Direct is turned on for both ports.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
6

No, the second port does not appear in either the input or output, in either the regular port list or the list of USB 1, USB 2, … entries.

… and the two ports do not show up in the list of Remote Direct MIDI … that’s the crux of the issue …

7

On you BomeBox main screen go the the home page and the select log. Then copy and paste the log into your posting.

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Also try a different port on your powered hub.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
8

I did try two ports for that device on the hub.

Here’s the Log:

1302: MT Player Headless on BomeBox started.
1306: MT Player Headless on BomeBox (Linux (Bome) 1.5.4)
1322: load settings OK: last modified=2024-11-08 21:00:10  filesize=846   filename:/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts
1344: Logger started.
1362: TCP_MIDI_Server: now listening on TCP port 37000 
1363: NetDirectory added type #1 local identity "BomeBox" at 0.0.0.0:37000
1395: Discovered MIDI INPUT : BomeBox DIN
1395: Discovered MIDI OUTPUT: BomeBox DIN
1396: MIDIManager started.
4548: Discovered MIDI INPUT : CQ20B,Craft Synth 2.0,Launchpad Mini MK3,MIDI4x4 [1],MIDI4x4 [2],MIDI4x4 [3],MIDI4x4 [4],Sylphyo Link [1],Sylphyo Link [2],Sylphyo Link [3]
4548: Discovered MIDI OUTPUT: CQ20B,Craft Synth 2.0,Launchpad Mini MK3,MIDI4x4 [1],MIDI4x4 [2],MIDI4x4 [3],MIDI4x4 [4],Sylphyo Link [1],Sylphyo Link [2],Sylphyo Link [3]
25351: NetDirectory: network interfaces have changed. Closing socket, triggering re-opening.
25351: TCP_MIDI_Server: network interfaces have changed. Closing socket, triggering re-opening. 
25490: TCP_MIDI_Server::Thread: invalid socket. Create a new listening socket. 
25490: TCP_MIDI_Server: now listening on TCP port 37000 
25651: NetDirectory: adding new broadcast domain: 192.168.50.255 (netmask:255.255.255.0)
25653: NetDirectory added type #1 remote port "Husky" at address 192.168.50.180:37000 
26012: TCP_MIDI_Server: client connecting... 
26012: Incoming ClientConnection (192.168.50.180:53404) has been instantiated.
26013: ClientConnection started.
26014: Client "Husky" is connecting...
26015: NetMIDI server: incoming connection request from client 'Husky'.
26016: NetMIDI server: auto-accepting incoming connection from 'Husky' because it was connected before (currentlyAutoAcceptClients)
26017: NetMIDI server: accepting client: Husky (192.168.50.180:53404)
26017: NetMIDI Server: accepting session with 'Husky'.
26017: [ClientConnection 1]: established session with client 'Husky'. Remote caps=25 
26017: Client "Husky" has MIDI connected.
26018: NetMIDI server: connection authenticated with remote client 'Husky' (192.168.50.180:53404)
26082: Discovered MIDI INPUT : Husky
26083: Discovered MIDI OUTPUT: Husky
26246: Opened MIDI INPUT 'CQ20B'
26247: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'CQ20B'
26250: Connected to 'Husky' ('Husky' at 192.168.50.180:53404).
26307: Opened MIDI INPUT 'Craft Synth 2.0'
26318: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'Craft Synth 2.0'
26342: Opened MIDI INPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
26354: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
26380: Opened MIDI INPUT 'MIDI4x4 [3]'
26392: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'MIDI4x4 [3]'
26416: Opened MIDI INPUT 'MIDI4x4 [4]'
26427: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'MIDI4x4 [4]'
26451: Opened MIDI INPUT 'Sylphyo Link [1]'
26463: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'Sylphyo Link [1]'
117750: Discovered MIDI INPUT : Tooro synth
117750: Discovered MIDI OUTPUT: Tooro synth
117819: Opened MIDI INPUT 'Tooro synth'
117851: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'Tooro synth'
256134: Closed MIDI INPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
256139: Closed MIDI OUTPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
289982: Opened MIDI INPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
289994: Opened MIDI OUTPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
322611: Closed MIDI INPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
322616: Closed MIDI OUTPUT 'Launchpad Mini MK3'
822390: Vanished MIDI INPUT   : Launchpad Mini MK3
822390: Vanished MIDI OUTPUT  : Launchpad Mini MK3
823429: save settings OK: last modified=2024-11-08 21:26:47  filesize=846   filename:/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts
992857: Discovered MIDI INPUT : Launchpad Mini MK3
992857: Discovered MIDI OUTPUT: Launchpad Mini MK3
993901: save settings OK: last modified=2024-11-08 21:29:37  filesize=846   filename:/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts

Hmmm what does ‘Vanished MIDI INPUT’ mean. Hmmmm …

9

Backup your BomeBox settings, Do a factory reset, then restore the settings. If that doesn’t work, I’ll get Florian involved in the troubleshooting process.

Sorry this is happening, I’ve not seen this problem before.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
11

Just a few other ideas…

So the BomeBox discovered both ports before? It’s so strange that it would stop seeing one of two ports.

Have you tried plugging the Launchpad directly into the BomeBox without the hub?

That’s the log message when you unplug that device.

The last thing that could give us some more insight is the system and kernel logs in the advanced config. You get there with the link at the bottom of the web config, and then use the menu to access these logs.

12

It gets even stranger!

The issue is apparently a ‘grounding issue’, which I do not yet understand.

The BomeBox is host on a 16-port i-Tikol hub that has the LaunchPad Mini Mk3 (LMM3) as well as an Allen & Heath CQ20B (and 8 other devices).

The issue began when I plugged two external speakers (Mackie SRM150) via XLR into two output ports of the CQ20B as monitors. The speakers are not powered up, but they are plugged into main power. With that setup, the Hub ‘misbehaves’ (there were other mis-behaviors, but I thought it was the XLR cable and swapped that out, which appeared to solve the issues).

Note that all XLR cables had correct wiring, and no pins were tied to the casing of the XLR connectors. Also, all main power outlets are on power strips that feed back to the same battery-backup UPS.

When I unplugged that one monitor from main power (on advice from the Allen & Heath forum), the hub immediately behaved correctly, showing both ports of the LMM3. I have tried two different SRM150 speakers in that location, and both cause the failure. I have also swapped power cables and the issue is cause with both power cables. So …

This is not a Bome issue!

If anyone has any pointers to info on such ‘grounding issues’, I would love to learn more. This system will be going on the road, and I can’t have it causing havoc in such a subtle way …

If you would like, I can provide the System and Kernel logs …

13

Why does the CQ20B need the USB connection if you can send a receive MIDI via Ethernet? What happens if you remove CQ20B USB connection and leave the speakers plugged in to the CQ20B?

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
1 Like
14

Fascinating! I really don’t have a good explanation how ground loops would make USB work partially.

USB is not made to be ground isolated, but there are USB ground isolators which might help? Like this one:

image

There are probably cheaper ones, too. Or USB hubs with built-in isolation.

There are also ‘ground lifting’ XLR cables, but I’m not sure that’ll help.

It’s time that the world moves to Ethernet as main transport for MIDI :wink:

1 Like
15

Will we have both Ether to TRS Type-A and Ether to TRS Type-B adapters? That should be fun …

USB ground isolators

Interesting … I have several … I’ll stick one in the CQ20B USB port and see if that works … in a few days when I get the next opportunity to try this …

Thanks for the support … and sorry for the distraction of something that turned out not to be a Bome problem!

16

Good questions! Hadn’t thought of that …

I’ll try that … in a few days when I get the next opportunity to test things out …

17

Not like that (and not using USB either, in case you meant that…). But with the Network MIDI 2.0 standard approaching ratification (overseen by yours truly), we may see more and more devices using Cat5 as main MIDI connector. Network MIDI 2.0 also works with MIDI 1.0, and the BomeBox and Bome Network will be updated to use it (in addition to everything they already have).

Very welcome! It is an interesting discussion.

18

Back from a 3-day trip. Fired up everything and spent the last 4 hours re-wiring and testing lots of possibilities. Some things I found:

  • I inserted an optical isolator between the hub and each of the 8 devices (in turn) that I have plugged into the hub. This had no effect on whether the hub failed.

  • Swapped hubs (16-port i-Tikol to a 10-port i-Tikol) and the failure persisted.

  • When I switch the hub master device from the BomeBox to a laptop, the hub does not fail, but the hub fails again when I switch back to the BomeBox as the master for the hub.

  • Changed the USB Cable between the BomeBox and the Hub and it still failed.

  • Changing where my PoE unit was plugged into main power had not effect on the failure (the hub still failed), but …

  • Changing from PoE power to the BomeBox to 5V micro-USB power completely fixed the hub failure issue (yay!).

I now believe that the ‘grounding issues’ were not the real issue. I believe that changing what was plugged in changed the nature of the failure, but not whether that configuration failed or not.

It now appears that there is something funky with my Power over Ethernet unit (causing a hub failure) vs. Power over micro-USB (USB hub is AOK).

Not sure what to try next - I’d rather use PoE (as suggested in the manual), but it’s not tenable with the hub failure …

Some notes:

19

Thanks Clint, very interesting findings! Glad you found a solution. When using a powered USB hub, there is not so much benefit of using a PoE power source for the BomeBox compared to a 5V USB power supply. You may even power the BomeBox itself with one of the ports on the USB hub. It looks strange, but works well:

image
image913×695 41 KB

The BomeBox is built with state of the art components for the PoE handshake and power distribution, including a switching transformer from the 48V (PoE) to 5V (USB). This is the first report ever that powering via USB works better that via PoE. I know that you do not jump to premature conclusions, but for the sake of other users coming to this forum, it’s important to put it in perspective.

The observed failure happens when these four devices are connected:

  1. PoE injector
  2. BomeBox
  3. USB hub
  4. Launchpad

So the real cause of the failure could be in the combination of any 2, 3, or all of these devices.

If you observe anything else, we’d be happy to know about it!

20

Interesting, I did notice that the hub said it provides ‘Special Feature Fast Charging, Plug and Play’ so I’m a bit concerned that if you use the hub to power the BomeBox, it might not provide persistent power which BomeBox requires. Fast charging ports tend to adjust their output power levels to optimize the capability of charging devices. Doing this on a BomeBox can create issues.

I’ve seldom seen issues of this sort, although I did have a problem with my Launchpad MINI (1st generation) which put quite a load on the USB port.

I bought a USB analyzer to test the power drain of various devices and it ranged from negligible to 250 ma per device but the Launchpad MINI drew a whopping 500ma (1/2 amp). Needless to say, I always put this on a powered hub when connecting to a BomeBox.

I’ve never had troubles with my POE injector(s).

In my old studio (before I moved) I did have some ground loop issues and had to ensure that certain things were powered by the same source. I probably should have called an electrician to check out for my house wiring but then I moved and haven’t had problems since in my new studio.

Right now I use POE to power BomeBoxes from a POE enabled netgear switch with no problems at all.

Power related issues are usually the toughest ones to solve (for any device, not just BomeBox).

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
21

… I was thinking was most likely my PoE. I’ve swapped out most of the other components and cables. My PoE injection device is not a particularly robust unit ($12), but it is 802.3 compliant.

I am wondering if it might be worth upgrading my PoE?

(I can’t go to a Netgear PoE-enabled switch, since this will be a road system).

… because (a subset of) this setup will go on the road, and I was not expecting to run a physical LAN in my road rig. So, I did not want to change modes between home and road from a USB-based mixer to an Ether-based mixer.

Also, the A&H CQ20B cannot be dual-homed … it can only talk on its WiFi or its Ether network, not both at the same time. I want to preserve the ability for other musicians running through my rig to mix their own local monitor using their WiFi-connected mobile device.

I could run the BomeBox over the mixer’s WiFi network, but then I cannot talk to the BomeBox from my wired laptop and desktop for development and testing …

(maybe there’s a LAN topology I’m not considering that could meet all these goals …)