Allen&Heath dLive /w Cockos Reaper CC control volume automation, NRPN

Hello!
I trying to make a fully automated project for a timecode based theatrical show to keep my hands free.
All the channel fader levels are automated and prepared in the DAW.
CC channels of variable values are being sent to bome box to get converted to NRPN messages for the dLive console.
I am confused with MSB and LSB, what parameter is what?
According to the AH manual ( https://www.allen-heath.com/media/dLive-MIDI-TCP-Protocol-1.50.pdf )
as an example for Channel 26 (hex 19) at midi channel 2 (N=1) it should be
B1 63 B1 62 17 B1 06 LV(value).

It is a simple task but I’m stuck with it… would appreciate some clarification.

Best regards,
Eugene.



Their tables are confusing as it is unclear for some things whether to use hex or decimal, but this is how read it. Also they use the term Channel for both MIDI Channel 1-16 and tracks 1-96

I believe the MSB is the track number-1 and the LSB is the parameter number (Fader =0x17 or 23 decimal)

Then the values (assuming they are 7 bit) should be passed through as the same value as the incoming fader.

Give the attached a try.
CC-to-NRPN-dLive-Fader-Track26.bmtp (980 Bytes)

I don’t have a dLive to test it with.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Steve, thank you for your help.
Unfortunately I feel like I got some mistake in the midi routing and just something is wrong and doesnt go through. I’ve tried all kinds of combinations, watched all of the youtube tutorials but completely frustrated. Now in Reaper the midi output is Bome Net. Nothings happening at the console, although I had DAW control driver working before and something else moved a few times during Midi device reset. This is an alien technology level for me, please help. :frowning:
Spent the whole day and night.
Uploading: IMG_5921.jpg…
Uploading: IMG_5920.jpeg…
Uploading: IMG_5919.jpg…
dlive again.bmtp (1.3 KB)

Are you running the project file on BomeBox or on your computer?

If on the computer, you will need to route from your computer to your dLive within BomeBox and then set. You will need to tie a virtual port to the output port used in Reaper and then route using the same alias as in the project file I sent you. and use your BomeBox for the ouput port. See screen shots.

image


I recommend you run it this way, since Reaper doesn’t have any virtual MIDI ports. You can still use Bome MIDI Translator as as a static MIDI router to connect to your BomeBox or you can use Bome Unlmited Virtual MIDI Ports, if you have purchased that.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Reaper is on my PC connected to a dlive with a Bomebox in between. I am loading the project file through the browser into the bomebox.
My confusion is mostly with the virtual ports and the routing, as I understood the path must be connected both ways through the virtual ports for the translator to work or it can be just PC to dLive? And while using the Bomebox we skip the AH DAW driver, is that correct?

Eugene.

Ok, now I got the bome routing looking correct. What driver do I choose in reaper, dlive, bomenet or the windows midi? I’m very new to midi, more into mixing, just hope to get through this.


OK, I think to start, it would be better to run you project file on the computer since you can look at the log there while you are developing your translators. After that is done, then you can upload your project file to BomeBox and use there if you want to offload MIDI processing. I’m going to reverse my initial decision to put add a route on your BomeBox and instead use Bome Network’s Remote MIDI Port capabilities.

If you click on your BomeBox in the Bome Network tool (in my case, "BomeBox2). You will see the attached ports to the BomeBox.

Click on the switch to expose your BomeBox dLive to your PC directly (no BomeBox routing needed). In the diagram, it is the bottom switch and it was initially red and clicking on it made it green.

Now in MT Pro you should see the port as your BomeBox name followed by a colon and the port name for your dLive.
image

However do not connect there, yet use the alias in the project that I created. This way later, if and when you move your project to your BomeBox, you can just re-assign the alias to the port name presented directly on your BomeBox.

image

IN the MIDI Menu Dropdown you should have the following option. Edit Project Port Aliases.

image

Here is how I have my aliases set up in my project file (running on Windows PC).

Clicking on it will open a popup window as show. This is how I have set my aliases.
The main thing here is to ensure that Reaper output is set to the same port as your project file. It may show, however to Reaper as BMT 3.

image

For me I’m just moving the first fader on the DAW, although you could probably use track output to do things as well. I’m assuming you might use Automation in Reaper to move your dLive faders.

Under the Control/OSC/web section in preferences this is how I have. It, I used the BCF 2000 driver as it seems to put out simple MIDI CC messages.
image

Here is the detail when clicking “Edit”. Right now I don’t have anything set for input since we are simply sending CC messages to Bome MIDI Translator to convert to NRPN which is needed by the dLive.

image

Now when I move fader1 in Reaper I see this in the Log Window of Bome MIDI Translator.

image

I don’t have an actual dLive, however I have an emulator that Allen and Heath provided to help with this tutorial. Here is what it sees so I know the messages are flowing completely. What I am not 100% sure of is if the NRPN output is correct for what the dLive expects. I referred to the documentation on that so I think it is right.

Once you get everything working with the project on your computer, you should be able to upload it to BomeBox. In this case you would use your output from Reaper similar to this.

image

image

After activating the project on BomeBox, you would assign your aliases like below:

Now I don’t need the project running on my PC and the path is as follows

Reaper → BomeBox2 Net → MT Pro Running on BomeBox → dLive3

Again, I recommend you get everything running with the project on the computer first, so that you can troubleshoot. Once everything is working, upload and assign the aliases and redirect Reaper output to your network port.

Here is the updated project file.

CC-to-NRPN-dLive-Fader-Track26.bmtp (843 Bytes)

Good Luck!

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
1 Like

Steve! Thank you very much!!!
I did everything step by step and it worked. First checked on the computer and matched the CC values, then loaded the project to BomeBox.
Now I can empower pure alien technology after almost embracing darkness :smiley:

The only weird thing is that the hex number value is actually +1 off the A&H table.
For example for CC=82 in reaper is actually 83 on their table. (using MIDI channel 2)
LSB is Parameter, MSB- input channel (for those who will try this at home)

I sent MIDI commands using Repers ReaControlMIDI plugin through FX and then added a MIDI out in the channel routing.

After that I added this FX envelope track and copied my volume automation envelopes to that track.

The only question left- how do you add a formula or rule to the translation to change the linear value to logarithmic?
At the moment the fader sensitivity is the other way round.

CC_nrpn_dlive_test1 (1).bmtp (837 Bytes)

THANK YOU! It is a miracle.

Best regards,
Eugene.

Hi, the attached example provides a simple velocity curve. I created it some time ago so haven’t studies that math recently. I believe that the key values to change is ga in the first translator rules.

This is what it looks like if you set ga to -100

image

This is what it looks like if you set ga to +100
image

And the project file
Velocity-Curve-Example-2022-01-11.bmtp (3.2 KB)

Oh and I’m so glad you got it working!!!

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz
1 Like

Actually the curve is ok, it is the Reaper’s envelope scaling.
When I copy the volume automation to a CC track the scaling isn’t really correct (by default with max envelope value +6db) the cc when pasted does this:
Volume automation 0db > CC envelope 63 (instead of 107)
When doing +6 (to the max of the scale) it goes all the way up to 127 (which is +10db).
Changing envelope scaling in Reaper just makes it a different story. (if you copy paste from volume envelope).

So I did a small adaptive rule

if qq<62 then qq=0
if qq>=62 then qq=qq+44
if qq>121 then qq=121

This way Reapers 63 has dLive take it as 107 (0db)
And maximum is +6 (I dont need a bigger value).
I hope this comes useful for people searching for similar tasks.
CC_nrpn_dlive_zheka.bmtp (896 Bytes)

Ah, I see. We have a tutorial on how to do scaling in Bome MIDI Translator.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Hello, Steve.
We changed our computer from PC to a mac and by doing the same actions it seems that the dlive is not getting messages now. Although it is seen in bomenet.
Is there a way to check what’s coming out of the bomebox to dlive?

Eugene.



I am not sure about all these routes.

Hi,

Are you running your project file on BomeBox or on your Mac? Maybe it is connected but the project file is pointing to the wrong location so maybe your project file aliases need adjusting. How are your aliases set up in your project file?

Could you post your project file? Are you using Remote MIDI Direct Ports on your Mac to get to BomeBox (it looks like it by your Mac routing)? If so, are they turned on?

In general you can Monitor the Output of a given port by creating a new virtual port “Alternate Monitor Location” and a route

OUT: BomeBox:dLive MixRack → OUT: Alternate Monitor Location

You will need advanced routing on your Mac to make this route. Then you can have Bome or some other MIDI Monitoring tool set input from the Alternate Monitor Location to see what is happening.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Steve, the project file is attached to one of the previous posts. Using the same one.
I can control the dlive faders via mackie and a&h daw control driver, everything goes through.
But with reaper it doesn’t.
I guess it is something in the routing of bombox. I tried using both MT and loading the project into the box.

Eugene.

From what you are saying, It looks like you have narrowed it down to the path from Reaper since you can update from your Mackie MCU, so maybe Reaper is not set up for the right output ports.

I would suggest you load the project file on your Mac, and use Remote MIDI Direct Ports on your BomeBox. Then look at the log window in MT Pro to see why Reaper isn’t getting through.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Hello, Steve.

This is the project attached.
CC_nrpn_dlive_progch_min55max127.bmtp (6.4 KB)

I am running this project on MTP on Mac.
I am being able to get messages from the dLive to MTP when I choose it as an input by moving faders.
I am able to get messages to MTP from MidiKeys (a simple midi keyboard simulator)
But unfortunately nothing comes in from reaper, doesn’t matter what MIDI output device I choose there.
Also dLive doesn’t react to program change from MTP even when the program is sent (there is a rule that changes any Key note from channel 3 to a scene change on dlive on channel 2.

What might be wrong in Reaper? What can be looked in theMacOS Midi settings?
Why is dLive not reacting to program change? It is seen on BomeNet and works via Mackie protocol.

Starting to spend too many time on this again :frowning:
I will try with a PC when I reach on it.

Eugene.

upd: Same situation with a PC.
The only way to get Midi from reaper is by enabling “Reset all midi on play/stop/all notes off”

Hi, What MIDI Device type do you have defined in Reaper as far as a control surface? I think the MIDI message that are sent by Reaper are based on whatever control surface in Reaper is defined.

image
Then you have to set the input and output there and not in MIDI Devices. I think. I’m not that familiar with Reaper but if I set it up as a BCF2000 it sends messages but not the same as you have programmed.
image

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Steve, I am using CC value changes on channels.
In the preferences choosing Audio> Midi devices. Not through any control surface.

Usually picking BMT or BomeNet.

Hi, have you ever had this working before? When using no control surfaces I can send to Reaper by using MIDI Learn (testing with a fader), but when moving the fader in Reaper, it doesn’t seem to send anything. The only time I can get Reaper to send anything is if I have a control surface defined.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care


Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz